As you know, I don't do a lot of guest interviews on this podcast, but
when I do, I tend to bring in people that I know respect and
trust. So this week I want to bring to you a local entrepreneur named
Paul LePage, who runs a company called Foundation BTS.
They do managed services and threat management for IT departments. But
I think what's most important is learning how Paul himself used
an agile approach to building his business. And Paul tells such a great
story about learning from failure and evolving from a great
technical person to. To a great business leader. So I think
you'll really enjoy this Interview with Paul LePage that's this
Week on the Badass Agile Podcast.
Greetings, team. Welcome to the Badass Agile Podcast. I'm
your host, Chris Williams.
Paul LePage, thank you so much for spending time with me today.
I'm glad to see you and I'm introducing you to my friends,
my listeners, for a very specific reason, because even though you're not
a scrum master, an agile coach, what you've done and what you built
here, not only is agile in nature, because you've
grown it from a seed of an idea to a profitable
business with employees serving the local community. But I'm looking at your
wall here, and there's newspaper paper clippings, and there's awards from the Chamber of
Commerce. And you're fairly well known in the community. In fact,
you have time and means to be charitable, which is how we met.
And I really love my conversations with you because we talk about so many things
in common without knowing it. And what I want this audience
to learn is that if you have an
idea, a passion, something that you want to contribute or give,
that maybe the best way to contribute in these changing
times is not to keep working for a bank or keep working for
an insurance company with the limited frame of a software
development agility coach. But you could use the skills you already
have to build something like what you've built. So I'm introducing Paul
LePage from Foundation BTS here in my hometown of Newmarket,
Ontario. Welcome, Paul. Thank you, Chris. I'm really grateful to be
here. Would you tell us first and foremost, what your business does? What does Foundation
BTS fundamentally do? So we're an outsourced IT
service company and we're based here in Newmarket, but we have
employees from all over the country. And the idea is we provide
help desk services, systems administration services,
cloud management services, and cyber protection to make sure that
our clients are able to focus on their business,
align their technology with their business needs. And
basically get more done. Sounds fundamental. Something that every business could
use. Everyone's heard of a managed services kind of an operation
before, but there's so much, much more going on under the hood. I want to
get there. But before we do, tell me about your background. How did you come
up and get to the point where you left maybe a corporate job
to where you are today? Okay, well, I'll start off on how I ended up
leaving the corporate world and ended up working with Foundation BTS
or owning foundation bts. And so I used to work
as an IT manager for a heavy civil construction
company. And so what they did is they operated around Canada.
They actually built the subway line for the Vancouver
Olympics. And so it was really exciting place to
work. They were sending me all over the country to do it things
and I managed, basically provided the IT management for
about 250 people. And so when I was working
there, they made a pivot and they went from
construction to construction management. And
so what ended up happening is they downsized significantly
and I found myself not as challenged. I didn't find the role as
exciting as I used to. And so I was looking for something
that would re engage me. And I had some
history as a programmer before, I'll get into that, maybe later. But
I went to my boss and I said,
I want a pay cut. And so he's like, well, I'm
listening. So I told him about my idea for
Foundation BTS, that I would work for him for only 20 hours a week.
I would go and seek out other clients, I would build a staff, I would
introduce new technology and new tools that would help me serve
him and other businesses better for less and less
money with better and better results. And he stopped
me midway through that spiel that I just told you and he said, just stop.
You had me a pay cut. And so that's where I am. Wow.
So Foundation BTS was born. So here's the interesting thing about your
story is that so many people in Agile talk about
failure and risk because you can't iterate and develop
things in innovative ways if you're not willing to try something you're
not 100% sure will work. But some people are so
afraid that if I do something that doesn't work, it's going to sink
the business. Yeah, that ends up being not true. And one of the
things we want to encourage agilists, but also the people that they serve
to do, meaning your stakeholders, your customers,
is to describe and navigate failure and risk in such
a way that it doesn't sink the boat, but it surfaces important,
important critical learnings early. What are some of the failures? Do you have any
stories about failure and or risk that would highlight
that point as you were growing and building this business? So I can give you
one story about failure. And this is my first day in
an IT job and I was working for a manufacturer. They made
gift cards and they were down in Consumers Road in Toronto. Some of
you might be able to guess what the company was. And so they had a
mainframe room in the center of their building that was supposed to be
bomb proof. And so I was working in there. I was in the midnight shift.
I was learning how to run jobs that would do their
accounting processes and stuff like that. And it's three in the morning
and I need the bathroom. And so I go and I try to open the
doors. They're magnetically sealed. I don't know how to get out. So I
turn to the computer operator and I yell over to him, hey, how do I
get out? He goes, press the red button.
So I saw one red button on the right hand side of the door. I
remember it vividly. And I press it and suddenly the lights go black,
it's dark. And then all the servers
and its mainframes, they're gigantic. And you hear and they're humming
along and they go
bound in Star wars. Just before
they launch the death ray at the planet there,
Whatever, Exactly. And it just goes down to dead
silence. And so a couple seconds go by and the computer
operator guy goes, not that red
button. And so there we were.
I had basically shut down the entire system and
fortunately they had a runbook that
was about 6 to 8 inches thick. The guy cracks it open
and by the way, I didn't have to use the bathroom anymore after that, I
bet. And he opens the book and he flips to a certain page and he
starts through this process of bringing everything back online. He
tells me to pop out the red button before the halon gas comes on
and we get to work. And so I'm running around doing
his bidding until the end of my shift. And he says,
listen, there's nothing more you can do here. You can go home. So I'm
driving home the whole way, I'm thinking this is probably my first and my last
day at this job. And I went back that night
basically to pick up my pay slip, my
pink slip. And when I got there, I was greeted
by the IT manager and the president of the company.
And they came and they said, first of all, Paul, we're surprised she
came back. I'm like, well, so am I, actually.
But they said, we want to thank you for coming back and we want to
let you know that none of this was your fault. And we want
to walk you through some of the changes that we made. So the first thing
is the emergency shutdown button, which is the one you pressed.
Unfortunately, it didn't have a label on it and it didn't have a cover on
it. We've covered it and we put a label on it. And now you can't
press that button by mistake. Right. The second thing is on the left side of
the door, which is the, the one that releases the magnetically sealed door. We
took the coat hook off the wall, and so people can't hang their coats
covering up that button. And we also labeled that door release.
And so, long story short, there's three things that
really hit me about that first day on that job. One is
that disasters. And by the way, that
incident apparently cost $150,000 in damages
to the systems. Some of the servers didn't come back
on. Sure. But
the fact that the runbook existed is something that was like.
People invested incredible amounts of time in making sure that just
this scenario was planned for. And that made a real impression on
me that's followed my entire career. And then the second thing is
communication and processes, and making sure that things are
labeled has had a major impact on my career.
There's a few more things I picked up there, but that whole, you know, and
working through pressure is something that, you know, I find that I'm
uniquely qualified to do so. Ed, it's so
illustrative. And by the way, for those of you out there who are looking to
tell stories to your stakeholders to convince them that
risk is not only an inevitable part of doing business,
it's necessary. It is the fastest way to learn. Because a, you will never make
that mistake again. Right. And they never would have
known that that was an error waiting to happen until they met you. Yeah,
right. What, what different use case that they weren't expecting is the one that
they need to address first because as you said, to have that happen week in
and week out, every time a new person joins the staff, it's like, how do
we get out of here? Press the red. The red button. Oh, okay.
To have that happen every week at 150,000 bucks a crack would have
been catastrophic. That's right. But a very high value
problem to solve. And even though this is not
story about software development per se, it is a great way to
illustrate the importance and the value of learning through
mistakes and failure. So feel free to share this story when you're trying to convince
your shareholders that when I say risk is essential, when I say failure
is the best teacher, this is an example. That's a great story,
Paul. Now, another thing that agilists lean heavily
on is adapting their business based on changing market
forces. What the customer wants today may be completely different than what they
want tomorrow. And the best position to be in is one where we
can respond to those changes in a fluid,
rapid and natural way that delights the
customer, as we say in the agile universe. And in your business,
you were telling me a story one time about how 911
shaped your decision to change what you did. But modern
day remote work definitely influences how you
work and what you do and how you do it. And so do forces like
AI. How have you and your team been adapting
to those forces? So AI is affecting everything
most of us do today. And as a matter of fact, I was, I saw
a LinkedIn post the other day of a lady who,
her business seems to be failing right now because she's found that
a lot of people, she's in content writing and graphics design and
a lot of the things that she do, people are relying on AI to do
that now. And so she's feeling that she's losing contracts. And
so when it comes to AI, we are in a period of
disruption and so everybody's job is going to change
to some degree. And so in our business we're
seeing it being delivered into the tools that we use to serve
our customers. So for example, in just recent
weeks we implemented a chat service so
when people, they don't have to email us or call us anymore, they
can use the chat. And the chat is first, it's
powered by AI and it greets the user, sorry, the
employee, and they will say, this is the
type of problem that I'm having. And it's able to
send the request to the right professional. And the
result of that is we're able to respond and complete
service three times faster than we were even a few months
ago. And so that's really boosted our performance.
Another thing that it's doing for us is inside of the tools that we use,
it is able to automate the steps that we have
programmed it to do a lot more faster. So for example, if a new
employee is coming to an organization,
it'll say, it sounds like Donna from Company X
has requested this and would you like me to order the
Microsoft 365 license. Would you like me to order to the computer? Would
you like me to set up the group policies for them? And then you
say the technician who still has control over it says, yes,
yes, yes, yes, and yes, I want to do that, but I don't want to
do this step because they're not going to need it in this case. And so
it's made our process again, faster there. It is
impacting everything we do. But the one thing I will say
is I feel that IT and cybersecurity
services are going to continue to be necessary primarily
because we consider our competitors
are the cyber crime community, we'll call them the community.
Sure. And so CyberCrime is leveraging AI
and we need to leverage AI to combat that. And so that's the biggest
area where we're seeing that companies
are depending on us to make sure that they're secure and safe.
Right. So you find yourself in a way, in an aspect of
business you had no idea you were ever going to be in. Right. Things
changed and flexed for you and you just responded according
to those market forces. Let me ask you this,
if someone's listening to this right now and say, that's great, but
I'm a scrum master, I'm an agile coach, I couldn't start my own
business. What advice would you give to
somebody who doesn't think that they can or should
build their own empire? I think
that anybody with passion to be able to
help people or deliver something that they, everybody
in their position, I think, has an opportunity to see something
that is unique, that they're better at than
everybody else. And so if you believe
that you can take that idea and deliver it to the
masses or a niche of the masses, then
you'll be able to do it. But if you don't believe you can, then you
won't. It really does come down to belief. Belief in yourself,
belief in the thing that you have to offer
and the belief that people want it is really what it comes down to.
So I believe that anybody could start a business today. And it
does come down to belief. You don't have to be an introvert or an extrovert,
you just need to believe in what you're doing. Very good, that's an
excellent point. And let me unpack something you mentioned there, because I was
speaking to a client of mine who's student in the Forge
Genesis where we talk about this empire building or starting your own business.
And he loved the saying that I have, which is, I may not be for
everybody, but I'm Perfect for somebody. There's 8 billion people on
this planet. Somebody needs exactly what you serve. So if
what you serve is learning how to sing the national anthem whilst on roller
skates, you might say, I have no use for that. But somebody out there
who needs it will. And for them, you're
perfect. And they'll pay any price to get the specificity and the
expertise that only you have. You
were talking talk about adapting and responding to failure.
This is our second pass of this interview, because first time, good old me,
you know, with all my preaching,
forgot to arm your microphones. So we have this one
recording of mostly me. And so we're doing it for the second time. And the
first time we did it, you mentioned something about the core skills that
you really need. If you had to say one thing to get good at and
focus on at the beginning, is not trying to
figure out, you know, as you're sitting there staring at two red buttons on the
wall, one of them shuts off all the servers, the other one gets you out
to the bathroom, and you cover up one of them, not
sitting there and thinking, well, what doofus wouldn't understand that these
two red buttons have very different critical functions. You
can't think of all of that stuff in advance, but there are some things you
should think about in advance. And one of them was, is your ideal
customer, right? Tell us about that skill and really quickly how
you learned it and why you think it's the number one skill that
anyone setting them out to build their own thing
so that they can get out there and make impact using the skills and passion
that they've already invested in. Why is that the most important thing?
So using ourselves as an example of failure,
we found that, that when. When you're
serving the right audience, then you can.
It's a recipe for success. And so
the way I described it when we were first going into it last time
was without a ideal
client target or an ideal client
profile, what you end up with is you're trying to broadcast
your message to a great deal of the wrong people.
And so I'll give you an example. In the early days,
we were looking for chiropractors. And we would sometimes take
people that were residential, like people that lived in,
you know, just at home. And what we found is that the
neither one of them believed that they needed our service at any
price. And so we sell some of our backup
solutions today, for example,
for 15 to $2,500 a month just for the backup
product. But when I was talking to chiropractors I would
have a really hard and no slam on chiropractors. Mine is great, by the way.
I highly recommend them.
They would say, well, $15 a month for a backup is too
much money. And so right away I recognized
that this was not an ideal client profile for me. Or
as an example, talking with residential customers. They would want to
talk to my staff, some of them whom I'm paying a very handsome salary
to, and they would want to
ask questions and use their time, and time is a commodity
in our business. But then at the end of the time they would go, well,
I don't want to pay for that. I was just asking you questions. And so,
long story short, and again, by using the negative side,
we quickly recognized who our ideal client profile was
not. And so now we focus
very clearly on a certain demographic, a certain market, and
it's getting a lot better results because our message is directly
tuned to them. Right, right, right.
When you talk about these things, you're no
longer talking about managed services. You're talking about the fundamental
skills required to lead and grow a business. And so
it seems like you've bumped into a lot of
thinking and philosophy around leadership
as you had to evolve from a practitioner, from a technologist
to a boss manager leader. As you describe it, there's almost
like a progression there. And I want you to talk about that. How did
you get interested in the topic of leadership
and how has that shaped your business? But also
is that ending up being valuable to your clients? Because it seems like you get
to talk to your clients about leadership.
So it's almost become this meta thing where in the progress or in the process
rather of building the business, you've learned about the
foundational aspects of leadership and now you can teach that back to the people
that you serve and add even more value. That's interesting. It
has been an interesting evolution. So especially recently,
we've had a lot of growth. I've had a lot of growth as a business
leader. And I will say, when I started this business back
in 2011, I was a great IT guy and I
could solve most problems. And
long story short, just like a great one man, show it guy.
And we go up and compete against those type of people all the time
these days. And what I've found
is that in my evolution, I did become like, I went from
a one man show to a boss or a
manager of a small team and
bumped up against a lot of the problems with managing people,
especially when I was doing it without a framework for success that
I've managed to grow through hard learning. And I'll
apologize to those people that worked for me in the early days, because, long
story short, I did it wrong and I probably did them a disservice.
But where we are today is
we have a common vision for the company, which is very clearly articulated.
People know where they're accountable and what their responsibilities are.
We don't need to micromanage anybody because everybody's
all on the same page. Great. That comes
through practice. It comes through
having people with a shared vision. It comes through hiring the right people
to also lead. And it's been a big
transition. And I don't know if I actually successfully answered your question.
I think you did, but let me put a nice bow on it by saying,
if people out there are wondering, is this for me, or do I just
kind of want to keep collecting the safe paycheck and no judgment
on that. If your place, if you feel at
home working in a large organization, serving as part of a big
team, then to me, that's no different. It's neither right
nor wrong. It's just a question whether it's right for you. But for those
people who listen to this show, I'm willing to bet, and almost everyone
I've ever met, in all of the Forge programs that I've trained,
there's always 30% that are like, I could go bigger.
I could do something just for me. I could build something completely new.
Those visionaries, those innovators like yourself,
are probably sitting on the fence. We talked about
what if they don't feel like this is for me or I can do it.
If you had to say what one or two qualities as a leader
or as a human being are
instrumental to your success, things that people
could focus on and really build on. What are the skills that are most important
to get, develop, or harvest
somehow? Well, I think you don't want to be afraid to fail, first
of all. And you also want to.
For me, it is about the people. And so
there's a lot of room here for everybody on my team to
also. I made mistakes in the early days. My team
is available to make mistakes in a lot of areas. Not with people's
backups and stuff like that. Like, there's processes and stuff. But
we want people to learn, and we want people to
have the opportunity to know that it's okay to come up with an
idea, and it's not a bad idea. They want
to try something, it didn't work type of thing. It's really made a big difference.
And Then I guess the other thing from
maybe going in a different direction from the people. It's about
the product versus the message. And so our product
is our service largely, and our message
is something that we didn't actually broadcast in the early days.
The mistake I made was that we allowed the company to
grow through referrals. And we did grow, and we had some
steady growth for a while, but it plateaued because we were
aiming at a larger demographic. Right. Which was more
our ideal client. We identified who that was based on who
our existing clients are that were most successful,
but we weren't going after more of those. And
if you look at Michael Berger from the E.
Myth, his story is, you can make the best apple pie
in the world, but the guy down the street who has a mediocre apple
pie is going to outdo you because he has a better
marketing message. He's out there selling it. That's the,
that's the lesson foundation BTS needed to make. And so
finally we're doing that. And that's something that
anybody that starts with a product and a message and they're out
there pushing what is their. What they, what they're
offering, they're going to do better than we did in the beginning. Right.
Because they learn that fundamental skill of talking to the right
people about what you do in a way that resonates with
them. Because as you said, it's. It's not the quality
of the pie necessarily. Although they're in town, by the way, if you don't know.
Newmarket, Ontario's best butter tarts. Go figure. Yeah,
right. Little business called the Maid's Cottage. They make great butter tarts and they're
known for winning all these prizes all across Ontario. So they call themselves
Ontario's Best Butter Tart. And man, they can back it up. Yeah.
However, before they got all those awards and accolades,
there had to be a call to come and just check out the
restaurant and see for yourself. If it's for you, this is who we are. This
is what we stand for. Old style home cooking, you know,
service with a smile, old wood grain tables, very
country kitchen feel to it. And if that resonated with you, you
are for us and we are for you. And a lot of people who
are thinking about starting their own business hesitate because they think sales and
marketing is dirty and. Or I don't know how to do it.
Well, the reality is, if you've ever had to sell an idea, if
you've ever had to motivate a team to row in the same Direction.
If you've ever had to get people up and amped
and let's do this. I don't know if it's going to work, but let's do
it. If you've ever had to convince a client, let's try
this, or to bring an idea to them, not 100%
sure if it will work or not 100% sure if it's the best idea. If
you've ever seen your way through that, you can sell,
you can market, because you can transmit an idea in such a
way that it causes an action, a
very specific action, and you can't let failure,
like marketing is something you learn by trial and error. Yes, right.
The same way that next time I use this template for recording, I will not
forget to arm your microphone. But when I was 18
years old, I played in a lot of rock bands. I got exposure to some
big crowds because of where I lived and where I went to school and stuff.
And I remember doing a show one time and we had a singer and we
knew he wasn't good, but when he got in front of people, he was even
worse. And at the end of the show, I put my guitar down
and ran to the nearest pillar and hid behind it
and wouldn't come out until everyone had gone home. I was so
embarrassed. I played, okay. He did not.
And if those people had never gone home, I never would have come out.
I'd still be there. Yeah. If I had done that today,
where we make a mistake and we screw up the recording and I said, okay,
screw it, yeah, I'm useless. I am. I'm so embarrassed. I'm never going to
record a podcast again. Right. I wouldn't be where I am today.
So your ability to say I'm not good at it, but if it's the most
important thing and guys who have done it and made a success
out of it, like Paul LePage from Foundation BTS,
then I could do it. I could do it if it means
the cost of doing it is being scared and risking embarrassment. But the
payoff is that I'll learn a fundamental skill
that my competitors don't have, even with their better
pie. I will outsell them, I'll outmaneuver them,
and so on. Man, that is really great advice. Paul, one last
question. What do you think might be next for you?
So for me,
personally, I've invested a lot of time into
making this business a success, and we're really,
really tracking with that right now. The company is doing better than we ever have
before. The team is Amazing. Our services are
fantastic. Our clients are raving about us, which is
a good feeling. And so for me
it does come down to we want to scale the organization.
And also I want to balance that with, you know, transitioning
myself from being an IT manager to a business
leader and working and using again, the Michael Berger
framework. I don't know if it's Berger or Berger actually.
And you know, working on the business instead of
in the business, but also emphasizing a bit more work, life balance.
Right, right. So before this interview I was talking to you about, you know, traveling
out to Napanee for a weekend. Right. I left a little bit early on Friday
and that's something that, you know, seven years ago I wasn't doing any of that.
Right. So we want to see ourselves
become a national company where we're working in every
province. And so we want
to have a salesperson and technical person in
each major city so that we can deliver
largely the remote services from our virtual
office, which is also located across Canada.
And actually, I don't know if I told you this, we're dedicated to being like
a Canadian only company. So our staff all
work and live in Canada, but we also have
workations, which is kind of fun. And so we had people working
from Hungary last year and stuff like that. And that's kind of fun. And
it's something I hadn't even considered before. So. So that's where I see
myself in 10 years. And then in terms of personal
life, we're going to do more charity stuff like the 100 men who give a
Damn. I'm going to play hockey until my knees don't work anymore. Awesome.
Awesome. And just continue to do fun things
with family and friends. So you get to have fun,
live a life that you want, build a life of your own design and you
build a business exactly the way that you want to build. As opposed
to trying to please everybody. Yeah,
we want to please a certain demographic.
Exactly. And we want to do that exceptionally well. Wow,
Paul. So first of all, thank you for making time to do this interview because
I think your insights give people with an agile
bent, maybe a wider purview that agile doesn't just mean that
software development, you know, trying to get things finished
faster. It's not about that. Agility is what the word. Agility
means being able to bend and flex with the environment,
learning from failure, not trying to know everything before
you put your foot out there. You know, if you had to get that red
button problem right before you opened your doors, there's a million Red button
problems in every business, and you can't know them right until you screw them
up good and proper. That's when you'll learn, that's when you'll improve, and that's when
you'll scale up. And I think that's an important lesson for people out there
to hear, because our industry is changing, Paul. The stuff that we do
is no longer considered commodity, is no longer considered
unique or necessarily
specialized. It's table stakes. That's right. And you're kind of
proving that. Actually, can I comment on that thing about the failure? Because
failure sometimes can have, like,
reputational impact or it can have a financial impact. And so
as an example, I want to talk about one with a financial impact. But
it doesn't mean that it was wrong.
That's right. Yep. So we invested in us, like
we're in our fourth iteration of our service management software
as an example. And so through time we found, well,
this is better for us, and so we made the move. Does that mean that
the one that we picked before that was wrong? Like, that was the wrong choice
at the time? No, it wasn't. Right. Another example
is we invested in, like, a male security program that we
found that after we got it implemented and like fully running,
it really just wasn't doing it the way we wanted it to do it.
So, long story short, we were locked into a contract for a year on
that. I had to continue paying the bill, but we pulled that out of our
customer base because it was going to affect our customer satisfaction levels. Right.
So making the wrong choice
is something that sometimes as a business owner, you just
have to live with and march on and
hopefully learn something from it. But these kind of things will
happen again and again. Of course, the other example
I can give is as the company got bigger, some of the
processes that we had in place stopped working. And Michael Dell wrote a book
based on how Dell kept breaking down every time he
hit this new glass ceiling. And he was just like, oh, this
is going to happen. This system that we built is this amazing today. When
we're this big of a company, we know it's not going to work anymore. And
so that's something that I try to keep in mind is, is
what we built for today isn't going to work in two years. Oh, that's
interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So failure, once again, essential part of the process.
It's how you build and grow. You know, there's a saying, muscle doesn't grow
until you tear it. So you expect things to break down. Well, One more time.
Paul, thank you so much for making. Time to do it. No problem. And people
can find you@foundationbts.com that's right. And they find your email is
Paulound. Paul LePage. Paul Lepage. Thank
you. And folks, if you're out there listening to this and you think
you could use or know someone who could use some managed services
or would like to get to know Paul and his offerings, would you do me
a favor and please check them out? You know my show, I don't bring on
people because they're famous or because they're on every other podcast. I
bring on people I like because they inspire me, they motivate me,
and they do great work. I'm so impressed with what you built here, Paul. Thank
you. And I'd like to make a business myself
that is the same size as yours and has the reach as yours. So please,
if you're thinking about managed services for your organization,
would you give Paul a try? Just take a look, have a conversation with him
and see if he's a fit for you. Help this business prosper
and grow and continue to do the great work that he does, from his charities
to the people that he employs in our local community. Thank you, Paul,
for being such a vibrant part of the new market business
landscape. I'm really grateful I could do this. Oh, me too. Thanks so much,
Paul. All right, thanks. I hope you enjoyed that one. Please
send in any questions or comments to
me@contactadassagile.com or any of the contact points
in the show notes below. And don't forget to check out
Paul@foundationbts.com thank you once again
in I look. Forward to next time. And until then, stay badass.