WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.960 As you know, I don't do a lot of guest interviews on this podcast, but 2 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:07.640 when I do, I tend to bring in people that I know respect and 3 00:00:07.640 --> 00:00:11.320 trust. So this week I want to bring to you a local entrepreneur named 4 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:14.640 Paul LePage, who runs a company called Foundation BTS. 5 00:00:15.120 --> 00:00:18.960 They do managed services and threat management for IT departments. But 6 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.800 I think what's most important is learning how Paul himself used 7 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:26.520 an agile approach to building his business. And Paul tells such a great 8 00:00:26.520 --> 00:00:30.120 story about learning from failure and evolving from a great 9 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.740 technical person to. To a great business leader. So I think 10 00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:37.460 you'll really enjoy this Interview with Paul LePage that's this 11 00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:39.540 Week on the Badass Agile Podcast. 12 00:00:47.299 --> 00:00:51.100 Greetings, team. Welcome to the Badass Agile Podcast. I'm 13 00:00:51.100 --> 00:00:52.660 your host, Chris Williams. 14 00:01:00.830 --> 00:01:04.270 Paul LePage, thank you so much for spending time with me today. 15 00:01:04.750 --> 00:01:08.510 I'm glad to see you and I'm introducing you to my friends, 16 00:01:08.750 --> 00:01:12.550 my listeners, for a very specific reason, because even though you're not 17 00:01:12.550 --> 00:01:16.270 a scrum master, an agile coach, what you've done and what you built 18 00:01:16.270 --> 00:01:20.070 here, not only is agile in nature, because you've 19 00:01:20.070 --> 00:01:23.750 grown it from a seed of an idea to a profitable 20 00:01:23.750 --> 00:01:27.590 business with employees serving the local community. But I'm looking at your 21 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:31.410 wall here, and there's newspaper paper clippings, and there's awards from the Chamber of 22 00:01:31.410 --> 00:01:34.970 Commerce. And you're fairly well known in the community. In fact, 23 00:01:35.130 --> 00:01:38.730 you have time and means to be charitable, which is how we met. 24 00:01:39.210 --> 00:01:42.970 And I really love my conversations with you because we talk about so many things 25 00:01:42.970 --> 00:01:46.570 in common without knowing it. And what I want this audience 26 00:01:46.650 --> 00:01:50.330 to learn is that if you have an 27 00:01:50.330 --> 00:01:53.850 idea, a passion, something that you want to contribute or give, 28 00:01:54.710 --> 00:01:58.310 that maybe the best way to contribute in these changing 29 00:01:58.310 --> 00:02:02.030 times is not to keep working for a bank or keep working for 30 00:02:02.030 --> 00:02:05.750 an insurance company with the limited frame of a software 31 00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:09.350 development agility coach. But you could use the skills you already 32 00:02:09.350 --> 00:02:13.070 have to build something like what you've built. So I'm introducing Paul 33 00:02:13.070 --> 00:02:16.510 LePage from Foundation BTS here in my hometown of Newmarket, 34 00:02:16.510 --> 00:02:20.310 Ontario. Welcome, Paul. Thank you, Chris. I'm really grateful to be 35 00:02:20.310 --> 00:02:24.070 here. Would you tell us first and foremost, what your business does? What does Foundation 36 00:02:24.070 --> 00:02:27.480 BTS fundamentally do? So we're an outsourced IT 37 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:30.880 service company and we're based here in Newmarket, but we have 38 00:02:30.880 --> 00:02:34.720 employees from all over the country. And the idea is we provide 39 00:02:34.720 --> 00:02:38.200 help desk services, systems administration services, 40 00:02:38.440 --> 00:02:42.240 cloud management services, and cyber protection to make sure that 41 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:45.160 our clients are able to focus on their business, 42 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:49.360 align their technology with their business needs. And 43 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:53.080 basically get more done. Sounds fundamental. Something that every business could 44 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:56.680 use. Everyone's heard of a managed services kind of an operation 45 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.940 before, but there's so much, much more going on under the hood. I want to 46 00:02:59.940 --> 00:03:03.140 get there. But before we do, tell me about your background. How did you come 47 00:03:03.140 --> 00:03:06.900 up and get to the point where you left maybe a corporate job 48 00:03:07.380 --> 00:03:11.100 to where you are today? Okay, well, I'll start off on how I ended up 49 00:03:11.100 --> 00:03:14.500 leaving the corporate world and ended up working with Foundation BTS 50 00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:18.500 or owning foundation bts. And so I used to work 51 00:03:18.500 --> 00:03:22.180 as an IT manager for a heavy civil construction 52 00:03:22.260 --> 00:03:25.780 company. And so what they did is they operated around Canada. 53 00:03:26.100 --> 00:03:29.530 They actually built the subway line for the Vancouver 54 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.560 Olympics. And so it was really exciting place to 55 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:37.120 work. They were sending me all over the country to do it things 56 00:03:37.600 --> 00:03:41.280 and I managed, basically provided the IT management for 57 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.800 about 250 people. And so when I was working 58 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.640 there, they made a pivot and they went from 59 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:53.000 construction to construction management. And 60 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:56.160 so what ended up happening is they downsized significantly 61 00:03:57.010 --> 00:04:00.850 and I found myself not as challenged. I didn't find the role as 62 00:04:00.850 --> 00:04:04.450 exciting as I used to. And so I was looking for something 63 00:04:06.050 --> 00:04:09.850 that would re engage me. And I had some 64 00:04:09.850 --> 00:04:13.330 history as a programmer before, I'll get into that, maybe later. But 65 00:04:13.730 --> 00:04:15.490 I went to my boss and I said, 66 00:04:17.730 --> 00:04:21.490 I want a pay cut. And so he's like, well, I'm 67 00:04:21.490 --> 00:04:24.879 listening. So I told him about my idea for 68 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.479 Foundation BTS, that I would work for him for only 20 hours a week. 69 00:04:28.719 --> 00:04:32.479 I would go and seek out other clients, I would build a staff, I would 70 00:04:32.479 --> 00:04:35.599 introduce new technology and new tools that would help me serve 71 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:39.879 him and other businesses better for less and less 72 00:04:39.879 --> 00:04:43.719 money with better and better results. And he stopped 73 00:04:43.719 --> 00:04:47.519 me midway through that spiel that I just told you and he said, just stop. 74 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:51.740 You had me a pay cut. And so that's where I am. Wow. 75 00:04:51.740 --> 00:04:55.300 So Foundation BTS was born. So here's the interesting thing about your 76 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:59.060 story is that so many people in Agile talk about 77 00:04:59.060 --> 00:05:02.740 failure and risk because you can't iterate and develop 78 00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:06.740 things in innovative ways if you're not willing to try something you're 79 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:10.180 not 100% sure will work. But some people are so 80 00:05:10.180 --> 00:05:13.940 afraid that if I do something that doesn't work, it's going to sink 81 00:05:13.940 --> 00:05:17.660 the business. Yeah, that ends up being not true. And one of the 82 00:05:17.660 --> 00:05:21.500 things we want to encourage agilists, but also the people that they serve 83 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:24.980 to do, meaning your stakeholders, your customers, 84 00:05:25.540 --> 00:05:29.340 is to describe and navigate failure and risk in such 85 00:05:29.340 --> 00:05:32.820 a way that it doesn't sink the boat, but it surfaces important, 86 00:05:33.380 --> 00:05:37.180 important critical learnings early. What are some of the failures? Do you have any 87 00:05:37.180 --> 00:05:41.020 stories about failure and or risk that would highlight 88 00:05:41.020 --> 00:05:44.660 that point as you were growing and building this business? So I can give you 89 00:05:44.660 --> 00:05:48.300 one story about failure. And this is my first day in 90 00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:52.020 an IT job and I was working for a manufacturer. They made 91 00:05:52.020 --> 00:05:55.820 gift cards and they were down in Consumers Road in Toronto. Some of 92 00:05:55.820 --> 00:05:59.180 you might be able to guess what the company was. And so they had a 93 00:05:59.180 --> 00:06:02.820 mainframe room in the center of their building that was supposed to be 94 00:06:02.820 --> 00:06:06.500 bomb proof. And so I was working in there. I was in the midnight shift. 95 00:06:06.500 --> 00:06:10.180 I was learning how to run jobs that would do their 96 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:13.580 accounting processes and stuff like that. And it's three in the morning 97 00:06:14.250 --> 00:06:17.810 and I need the bathroom. And so I go and I try to open the 98 00:06:17.810 --> 00:06:21.490 doors. They're magnetically sealed. I don't know how to get out. So I 99 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:24.850 turn to the computer operator and I yell over to him, hey, how do I 100 00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:27.130 get out? He goes, press the red button. 101 00:06:28.410 --> 00:06:31.890 So I saw one red button on the right hand side of the door. I 102 00:06:31.890 --> 00:06:35.290 remember it vividly. And I press it and suddenly the lights go black, 103 00:06:35.850 --> 00:06:39.490 it's dark. And then all the servers 104 00:06:39.490 --> 00:06:43.250 and its mainframes, they're gigantic. And you hear and they're humming 105 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:44.560 along and they go 106 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:48.400 bound in Star wars. Just before 107 00:06:48.400 --> 00:06:52.120 they launch the death ray at the planet there, 108 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:55.680 Whatever, Exactly. And it just goes down to dead 109 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.280 silence. And so a couple seconds go by and the computer 110 00:06:59.280 --> 00:07:03.040 operator guy goes, not that red 111 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:06.720 button. And so there we were. 112 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.980 I had basically shut down the entire system and 113 00:07:11.260 --> 00:07:15.060 fortunately they had a runbook that 114 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:18.460 was about 6 to 8 inches thick. The guy cracks it open 115 00:07:18.620 --> 00:07:21.660 and by the way, I didn't have to use the bathroom anymore after that, I 116 00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:25.220 bet. And he opens the book and he flips to a certain page and he 117 00:07:25.220 --> 00:07:29.060 starts through this process of bringing everything back online. He 118 00:07:29.060 --> 00:07:32.860 tells me to pop out the red button before the halon gas comes on 119 00:07:33.340 --> 00:07:37.180 and we get to work. And so I'm running around doing 120 00:07:37.180 --> 00:07:40.810 his bidding until the end of my shift. And he says, 121 00:07:40.810 --> 00:07:44.650 listen, there's nothing more you can do here. You can go home. So I'm 122 00:07:44.650 --> 00:07:48.330 driving home the whole way, I'm thinking this is probably my first and my last 123 00:07:48.330 --> 00:07:52.170 day at this job. And I went back that night 124 00:07:52.410 --> 00:07:56.210 basically to pick up my pay slip, my 125 00:07:56.210 --> 00:07:59.810 pink slip. And when I got there, I was greeted 126 00:07:59.810 --> 00:08:03.450 by the IT manager and the president of the company. 127 00:08:03.530 --> 00:08:07.320 And they came and they said, first of all, Paul, we're surprised she 128 00:08:07.320 --> 00:08:10.440 came back. I'm like, well, so am I, actually. 129 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:15.720 But they said, we want to thank you for coming back and we want to 130 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.560 let you know that none of this was your fault. And we want 131 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.320 to walk you through some of the changes that we made. So the first thing 132 00:08:22.320 --> 00:08:26.000 is the emergency shutdown button, which is the one you pressed. 133 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.360 Unfortunately, it didn't have a label on it and it didn't have a cover on 134 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.080 it. We've covered it and we put a label on it. And now you can't 135 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.840 press that button by mistake. Right. The second thing is on the left side of 136 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:40.539 the door, which is the, the one that releases the magnetically sealed door. We 137 00:08:40.539 --> 00:08:44.059 took the coat hook off the wall, and so people can't hang their coats 138 00:08:44.059 --> 00:08:47.859 covering up that button. And we also labeled that door release. 139 00:08:48.739 --> 00:08:52.419 And so, long story short, there's three things that 140 00:08:52.419 --> 00:08:55.619 really hit me about that first day on that job. One is 141 00:08:56.419 --> 00:08:59.859 that disasters. And by the way, that 142 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:04.179 incident apparently cost $150,000 in damages 143 00:09:04.179 --> 00:09:07.899 to the systems. Some of the servers didn't come back 144 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:11.260 on. Sure. But 145 00:09:12.380 --> 00:09:15.740 the fact that the runbook existed is something that was like. 146 00:09:16.060 --> 00:09:19.820 People invested incredible amounts of time in making sure that just 147 00:09:19.820 --> 00:09:23.660 this scenario was planned for. And that made a real impression on 148 00:09:23.660 --> 00:09:27.380 me that's followed my entire career. And then the second thing is 149 00:09:27.380 --> 00:09:31.020 communication and processes, and making sure that things are 150 00:09:31.020 --> 00:09:33.980 labeled has had a major impact on my career. 151 00:09:35.580 --> 00:09:38.820 There's a few more things I picked up there, but that whole, you know, and 152 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:42.620 working through pressure is something that, you know, I find that I'm 153 00:09:42.620 --> 00:09:46.340 uniquely qualified to do so. Ed, it's so 154 00:09:46.340 --> 00:09:50.100 illustrative. And by the way, for those of you out there who are looking to 155 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:53.820 tell stories to your stakeholders to convince them that 156 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:57.500 risk is not only an inevitable part of doing business, 157 00:09:57.820 --> 00:10:01.620 it's necessary. It is the fastest way to learn. Because a, you will never make 158 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:05.440 that mistake again. Right. And they never would have 159 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.040 known that that was an error waiting to happen until they met you. Yeah, 160 00:10:09.040 --> 00:10:12.760 right. What, what different use case that they weren't expecting is the one that 161 00:10:12.760 --> 00:10:16.280 they need to address first because as you said, to have that happen week in 162 00:10:16.280 --> 00:10:18.919 and week out, every time a new person joins the staff, it's like, how do 163 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:21.360 we get out of here? Press the red. The red button. Oh, okay. 164 00:10:23.520 --> 00:10:27.320 To have that happen every week at 150,000 bucks a crack would have 165 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:30.720 been catastrophic. That's right. But a very high value 166 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:34.240 problem to solve. And even though this is not 167 00:10:34.860 --> 00:10:38.540 story about software development per se, it is a great way to 168 00:10:38.540 --> 00:10:42.300 illustrate the importance and the value of learning through 169 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:46.220 mistakes and failure. So feel free to share this story when you're trying to convince 170 00:10:46.220 --> 00:10:50.020 your shareholders that when I say risk is essential, when I say failure 171 00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:53.580 is the best teacher, this is an example. That's a great story, 172 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:57.300 Paul. Now, another thing that agilists lean heavily 173 00:10:57.300 --> 00:11:01.100 on is adapting their business based on changing market 174 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:04.870 forces. What the customer wants today may be completely different than what they 175 00:11:04.870 --> 00:11:08.630 want tomorrow. And the best position to be in is one where we 176 00:11:08.630 --> 00:11:12.190 can respond to those changes in a fluid, 177 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:16.150 rapid and natural way that delights the 178 00:11:16.150 --> 00:11:19.710 customer, as we say in the agile universe. And in your business, 179 00:11:20.110 --> 00:11:23.470 you were telling me a story one time about how 911 180 00:11:23.630 --> 00:11:27.310 shaped your decision to change what you did. But modern 181 00:11:27.310 --> 00:11:31.160 day remote work definitely influences how you 182 00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:34.760 work and what you do and how you do it. And so do forces like 183 00:11:34.760 --> 00:11:38.520 AI. How have you and your team been adapting 184 00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:42.120 to those forces? So AI is affecting everything 185 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.280 most of us do today. And as a matter of fact, I was, I saw 186 00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:48.440 a LinkedIn post the other day of a lady who, 187 00:11:48.920 --> 00:11:52.640 her business seems to be failing right now because she's found that 188 00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:56.410 a lot of people, she's in content writing and graphics design and 189 00:11:56.410 --> 00:11:59.650 a lot of the things that she do, people are relying on AI to do 190 00:11:59.650 --> 00:12:03.410 that now. And so she's feeling that she's losing contracts. And 191 00:12:03.410 --> 00:12:07.050 so when it comes to AI, we are in a period of 192 00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:10.690 disruption and so everybody's job is going to change 193 00:12:10.690 --> 00:12:14.370 to some degree. And so in our business we're 194 00:12:14.370 --> 00:12:18.210 seeing it being delivered into the tools that we use to serve 195 00:12:18.210 --> 00:12:21.130 our customers. So for example, in just recent 196 00:12:22.030 --> 00:12:25.830 weeks we implemented a chat service so 197 00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:29.510 when people, they don't have to email us or call us anymore, they 198 00:12:29.510 --> 00:12:33.110 can use the chat. And the chat is first, it's 199 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:36.710 powered by AI and it greets the user, sorry, the 200 00:12:36.710 --> 00:12:40.390 employee, and they will say, this is the 201 00:12:40.390 --> 00:12:43.550 type of problem that I'm having. And it's able to 202 00:12:44.030 --> 00:12:47.830 send the request to the right professional. And the 203 00:12:47.830 --> 00:12:51.390 result of that is we're able to respond and complete 204 00:12:51.390 --> 00:12:54.970 service three times faster than we were even a few months 205 00:12:54.970 --> 00:12:57.970 ago. And so that's really boosted our performance. 206 00:12:58.690 --> 00:13:02.050 Another thing that it's doing for us is inside of the tools that we use, 207 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:06.610 it is able to automate the steps that we have 208 00:13:06.610 --> 00:13:10.250 programmed it to do a lot more faster. So for example, if a new 209 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:12.050 employee is coming to an organization, 210 00:13:13.890 --> 00:13:17.490 it'll say, it sounds like Donna from Company X 211 00:13:17.730 --> 00:13:21.210 has requested this and would you like me to order the 212 00:13:21.210 --> 00:13:25.030 Microsoft 365 license. Would you like me to order to the computer? Would 213 00:13:25.030 --> 00:13:28.790 you like me to set up the group policies for them? And then you 214 00:13:28.790 --> 00:13:32.350 say the technician who still has control over it says, yes, 215 00:13:32.350 --> 00:13:34.830 yes, yes, yes, and yes, I want to do that, but I don't want to 216 00:13:34.830 --> 00:13:38.630 do this step because they're not going to need it in this case. And so 217 00:13:38.630 --> 00:13:42.030 it's made our process again, faster there. It is 218 00:13:42.030 --> 00:13:45.630 impacting everything we do. But the one thing I will say 219 00:13:45.630 --> 00:13:49.190 is I feel that IT and cybersecurity 220 00:13:49.190 --> 00:13:53.040 services are going to continue to be necessary primarily 221 00:13:53.040 --> 00:13:56.440 because we consider our competitors 222 00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:00.120 are the cyber crime community, we'll call them the community. 223 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.560 Sure. And so CyberCrime is leveraging AI 224 00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:07.600 and we need to leverage AI to combat that. And so that's the biggest 225 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.440 area where we're seeing that companies 226 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:15.240 are depending on us to make sure that they're secure and safe. 227 00:14:15.640 --> 00:14:19.360 Right. So you find yourself in a way, in an aspect of 228 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:22.760 business you had no idea you were ever going to be in. Right. Things 229 00:14:22.760 --> 00:14:26.500 changed and flexed for you and you just responded according 230 00:14:26.500 --> 00:14:29.460 to those market forces. Let me ask you this, 231 00:14:30.100 --> 00:14:33.540 if someone's listening to this right now and say, that's great, but 232 00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:37.220 I'm a scrum master, I'm an agile coach, I couldn't start my own 233 00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:40.860 business. What advice would you give to 234 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:44.100 somebody who doesn't think that they can or should 235 00:14:44.660 --> 00:14:48.300 build their own empire? I think 236 00:14:48.300 --> 00:14:51.580 that anybody with passion to be able to 237 00:14:52.300 --> 00:14:55.580 help people or deliver something that they, everybody 238 00:14:56.060 --> 00:14:59.820 in their position, I think, has an opportunity to see something 239 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:03.980 that is unique, that they're better at than 240 00:15:04.060 --> 00:15:07.580 everybody else. And so if you believe 241 00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:11.260 that you can take that idea and deliver it to the 242 00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:15.020 masses or a niche of the masses, then 243 00:15:15.180 --> 00:15:18.620 you'll be able to do it. But if you don't believe you can, then you 244 00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:22.340 won't. It really does come down to belief. Belief in yourself, 245 00:15:22.660 --> 00:15:24.980 belief in the thing that you have to offer 246 00:15:26.340 --> 00:15:30.180 and the belief that people want it is really what it comes down to. 247 00:15:30.820 --> 00:15:34.540 So I believe that anybody could start a business today. And it 248 00:15:34.540 --> 00:15:38.340 does come down to belief. You don't have to be an introvert or an extrovert, 249 00:15:38.660 --> 00:15:42.380 you just need to believe in what you're doing. Very good, that's an 250 00:15:42.380 --> 00:15:45.980 excellent point. And let me unpack something you mentioned there, because I was 251 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:49.540 speaking to a client of mine who's student in the Forge 252 00:15:49.540 --> 00:15:53.300 Genesis where we talk about this empire building or starting your own business. 253 00:15:54.020 --> 00:15:56.980 And he loved the saying that I have, which is, I may not be for 254 00:15:56.980 --> 00:16:00.700 everybody, but I'm Perfect for somebody. There's 8 billion people on 255 00:16:00.700 --> 00:16:04.540 this planet. Somebody needs exactly what you serve. So if 256 00:16:04.540 --> 00:16:08.140 what you serve is learning how to sing the national anthem whilst on roller 257 00:16:08.140 --> 00:16:11.940 skates, you might say, I have no use for that. But somebody out there 258 00:16:12.340 --> 00:16:15.950 who needs it will. And for them, you're 259 00:16:15.950 --> 00:16:19.630 perfect. And they'll pay any price to get the specificity and the 260 00:16:19.630 --> 00:16:23.390 expertise that only you have. You 261 00:16:23.390 --> 00:16:27.070 were talking talk about adapting and responding to failure. 262 00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:30.870 This is our second pass of this interview, because first time, good old me, 263 00:16:31.510 --> 00:16:35.230 you know, with all my preaching, 264 00:16:35.230 --> 00:16:38.830 forgot to arm your microphones. So we have this one 265 00:16:38.830 --> 00:16:42.230 recording of mostly me. And so we're doing it for the second time. And the 266 00:16:42.230 --> 00:16:46.080 first time we did it, you mentioned something about the core skills that 267 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.400 you really need. If you had to say one thing to get good at and 268 00:16:49.400 --> 00:16:52.400 focus on at the beginning, is not trying to 269 00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:56.360 figure out, you know, as you're sitting there staring at two red buttons on the 270 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.880 wall, one of them shuts off all the servers, the other one gets you out 271 00:16:59.880 --> 00:17:03.640 to the bathroom, and you cover up one of them, not 272 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.480 sitting there and thinking, well, what doofus wouldn't understand that these 273 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.160 two red buttons have very different critical functions. You 274 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.320 can't think of all of that stuff in advance, but there are some things you 275 00:17:14.320 --> 00:17:18.140 should think about in advance. And one of them was, is your ideal 276 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:21.860 customer, right? Tell us about that skill and really quickly how 277 00:17:21.860 --> 00:17:25.460 you learned it and why you think it's the number one skill that 278 00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:28.700 anyone setting them out to build their own thing 279 00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:32.980 so that they can get out there and make impact using the skills and passion 280 00:17:32.980 --> 00:17:35.820 that they've already invested in. Why is that the most important thing? 281 00:17:36.620 --> 00:17:39.500 So using ourselves as an example of failure, 282 00:17:40.620 --> 00:17:44.450 we found that, that when. When you're 283 00:17:44.450 --> 00:17:48.250 serving the right audience, then you can. 284 00:17:48.970 --> 00:17:52.090 It's a recipe for success. And so 285 00:17:52.890 --> 00:17:56.090 the way I described it when we were first going into it last time 286 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:00.130 was without a ideal 287 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:03.530 client target or an ideal client 288 00:18:03.530 --> 00:18:07.250 profile, what you end up with is you're trying to broadcast 289 00:18:07.250 --> 00:18:10.890 your message to a great deal of the wrong people. 290 00:18:11.690 --> 00:18:14.970 And so I'll give you an example. In the early days, 291 00:18:15.610 --> 00:18:19.410 we were looking for chiropractors. And we would sometimes take 292 00:18:19.410 --> 00:18:23.090 people that were residential, like people that lived in, 293 00:18:23.090 --> 00:18:26.330 you know, just at home. And what we found is that the 294 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:30.770 neither one of them believed that they needed our service at any 295 00:18:30.770 --> 00:18:34.410 price. And so we sell some of our backup 296 00:18:34.410 --> 00:18:37.210 solutions today, for example, 297 00:18:38.080 --> 00:18:41.720 for 15 to $2,500 a month just for the backup 298 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:45.480 product. But when I was talking to chiropractors I would 299 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:49.160 have a really hard and no slam on chiropractors. Mine is great, by the way. 300 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:50.320 I highly recommend them. 301 00:18:53.520 --> 00:18:57.320 They would say, well, $15 a month for a backup is too 302 00:18:57.320 --> 00:19:01.040 much money. And so right away I recognized 303 00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:04.720 that this was not an ideal client profile for me. Or 304 00:19:05.230 --> 00:19:08.990 as an example, talking with residential customers. They would want to 305 00:19:09.070 --> 00:19:12.830 talk to my staff, some of them whom I'm paying a very handsome salary 306 00:19:12.830 --> 00:19:16.670 to, and they would want to 307 00:19:16.910 --> 00:19:20.670 ask questions and use their time, and time is a commodity 308 00:19:20.670 --> 00:19:24.150 in our business. But then at the end of the time they would go, well, 309 00:19:24.150 --> 00:19:27.590 I don't want to pay for that. I was just asking you questions. And so, 310 00:19:27.590 --> 00:19:31.390 long story short, and again, by using the negative side, 311 00:19:32.890 --> 00:19:36.410 we quickly recognized who our ideal client profile was 312 00:19:36.410 --> 00:19:40.090 not. And so now we focus 313 00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:44.010 very clearly on a certain demographic, a certain market, and 314 00:19:44.010 --> 00:19:47.850 it's getting a lot better results because our message is directly 315 00:19:47.850 --> 00:19:50.170 tuned to them. Right, right, right. 316 00:19:51.370 --> 00:19:54.930 When you talk about these things, you're no 317 00:19:54.930 --> 00:19:58.770 longer talking about managed services. You're talking about the fundamental 318 00:19:58.770 --> 00:20:02.610 skills required to lead and grow a business. And so 319 00:20:02.610 --> 00:20:06.330 it seems like you've bumped into a lot of 320 00:20:07.050 --> 00:20:10.410 thinking and philosophy around leadership 321 00:20:10.890 --> 00:20:14.410 as you had to evolve from a practitioner, from a technologist 322 00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:18.210 to a boss manager leader. As you describe it, there's almost 323 00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:21.890 like a progression there. And I want you to talk about that. How did 324 00:20:21.890 --> 00:20:25.290 you get interested in the topic of leadership 325 00:20:25.930 --> 00:20:29.370 and how has that shaped your business? But also 326 00:20:30.070 --> 00:20:33.790 is that ending up being valuable to your clients? Because it seems like you get 327 00:20:33.790 --> 00:20:36.870 to talk to your clients about leadership. 328 00:20:37.510 --> 00:20:41.030 So it's almost become this meta thing where in the progress or in the process 329 00:20:41.030 --> 00:20:44.870 rather of building the business, you've learned about the 330 00:20:44.870 --> 00:20:48.630 foundational aspects of leadership and now you can teach that back to the people 331 00:20:48.630 --> 00:20:52.430 that you serve and add even more value. That's interesting. It 332 00:20:52.430 --> 00:20:55.990 has been an interesting evolution. So especially recently, 333 00:20:56.710 --> 00:21:00.310 we've had a lot of growth. I've had a lot of growth as a business 334 00:21:00.390 --> 00:21:04.170 leader. And I will say, when I started this business back 335 00:21:04.170 --> 00:21:07.850 in 2011, I was a great IT guy and I 336 00:21:07.850 --> 00:21:11.490 could solve most problems. And 337 00:21:12.450 --> 00:21:16.290 long story short, just like a great one man, show it guy. 338 00:21:16.450 --> 00:21:20.130 And we go up and compete against those type of people all the time 339 00:21:20.130 --> 00:21:23.810 these days. And what I've found 340 00:21:24.050 --> 00:21:27.730 is that in my evolution, I did become like, I went from 341 00:21:28.450 --> 00:21:31.770 a one man show to a boss or a 342 00:21:31.770 --> 00:21:35.010 manager of a small team and 343 00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:39.650 bumped up against a lot of the problems with managing people, 344 00:21:40.050 --> 00:21:43.809 especially when I was doing it without a framework for success that 345 00:21:43.809 --> 00:21:47.290 I've managed to grow through hard learning. And I'll 346 00:21:47.290 --> 00:21:50.850 apologize to those people that worked for me in the early days, because, long 347 00:21:50.850 --> 00:21:54.290 story short, I did it wrong and I probably did them a disservice. 348 00:21:55.320 --> 00:21:57.880 But where we are today is 349 00:22:00.040 --> 00:22:03.800 we have a common vision for the company, which is very clearly articulated. 350 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:07.800 People know where they're accountable and what their responsibilities are. 351 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.920 We don't need to micromanage anybody because everybody's 352 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.320 all on the same page. Great. That comes 353 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.200 through practice. It comes through 354 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.540 having people with a shared vision. It comes through hiring the right people 355 00:22:22.700 --> 00:22:26.460 to also lead. And it's been a big 356 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.220 transition. And I don't know if I actually successfully answered your question. 357 00:22:30.300 --> 00:22:32.940 I think you did, but let me put a nice bow on it by saying, 358 00:22:33.420 --> 00:22:37.180 if people out there are wondering, is this for me, or do I just 359 00:22:37.180 --> 00:22:40.900 kind of want to keep collecting the safe paycheck and no judgment 360 00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:44.540 on that. If your place, if you feel at 361 00:22:44.540 --> 00:22:48.260 home working in a large organization, serving as part of a big 362 00:22:48.260 --> 00:22:51.910 team, then to me, that's no different. It's neither right 363 00:22:51.910 --> 00:22:55.470 nor wrong. It's just a question whether it's right for you. But for those 364 00:22:55.470 --> 00:22:59.270 people who listen to this show, I'm willing to bet, and almost everyone 365 00:22:59.270 --> 00:23:02.910 I've ever met, in all of the Forge programs that I've trained, 366 00:23:03.310 --> 00:23:06.990 there's always 30% that are like, I could go bigger. 367 00:23:07.470 --> 00:23:10.990 I could do something just for me. I could build something completely new. 368 00:23:11.630 --> 00:23:15.070 Those visionaries, those innovators like yourself, 369 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.680 are probably sitting on the fence. We talked about 370 00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:22.320 what if they don't feel like this is for me or I can do it. 371 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:26.280 If you had to say what one or two qualities as a leader 372 00:23:26.280 --> 00:23:28.800 or as a human being are 373 00:23:29.280 --> 00:23:33.000 instrumental to your success, things that people 374 00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:36.280 could focus on and really build on. What are the skills that are most important 375 00:23:36.280 --> 00:23:39.640 to get, develop, or harvest 376 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:43.320 somehow? Well, I think you don't want to be afraid to fail, first 377 00:23:43.320 --> 00:23:46.040 of all. And you also want to. 378 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:51.960 For me, it is about the people. And so 379 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.600 there's a lot of room here for everybody on my team to 380 00:23:55.600 --> 00:23:58.920 also. I made mistakes in the early days. My team 381 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:02.960 is available to make mistakes in a lot of areas. Not with people's 382 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:06.760 backups and stuff like that. Like, there's processes and stuff. But 383 00:24:07.910 --> 00:24:11.030 we want people to learn, and we want people to 384 00:24:12.790 --> 00:24:16.350 have the opportunity to know that it's okay to come up with an 385 00:24:16.350 --> 00:24:20.150 idea, and it's not a bad idea. They want 386 00:24:20.150 --> 00:24:23.830 to try something, it didn't work type of thing. It's really made a big difference. 387 00:24:23.830 --> 00:24:25.830 And Then I guess the other thing from 388 00:24:27.590 --> 00:24:30.790 maybe going in a different direction from the people. It's about 389 00:24:32.150 --> 00:24:35.820 the product versus the message. And so our product 390 00:24:35.820 --> 00:24:39.260 is our service largely, and our message 391 00:24:39.500 --> 00:24:43.100 is something that we didn't actually broadcast in the early days. 392 00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:48.020 The mistake I made was that we allowed the company to 393 00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:51.700 grow through referrals. And we did grow, and we had some 394 00:24:51.700 --> 00:24:55.380 steady growth for a while, but it plateaued because we were 395 00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:59.140 aiming at a larger demographic. Right. Which was more 396 00:24:59.140 --> 00:25:02.800 our ideal client. We identified who that was based on who 397 00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:05.200 our existing clients are that were most successful, 398 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:10.560 but we weren't going after more of those. And 399 00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:14.880 if you look at Michael Berger from the E. 400 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.680 Myth, his story is, you can make the best apple pie 401 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.480 in the world, but the guy down the street who has a mediocre apple 402 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.960 pie is going to outdo you because he has a better 403 00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.490 marketing message. He's out there selling it. That's the, 404 00:25:29.650 --> 00:25:33.410 that's the lesson foundation BTS needed to make. And so 405 00:25:33.410 --> 00:25:36.690 finally we're doing that. And that's something that 406 00:25:36.850 --> 00:25:40.570 anybody that starts with a product and a message and they're out 407 00:25:40.570 --> 00:25:44.049 there pushing what is their. What they, what they're 408 00:25:44.049 --> 00:25:47.650 offering, they're going to do better than we did in the beginning. Right. 409 00:25:47.650 --> 00:25:51.250 Because they learn that fundamental skill of talking to the right 410 00:25:51.250 --> 00:25:54.880 people about what you do in a way that resonates with 411 00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:58.640 them. Because as you said, it's. It's not the quality 412 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.280 of the pie necessarily. Although they're in town, by the way, if you don't know. 413 00:26:02.280 --> 00:26:05.880 Newmarket, Ontario's best butter tarts. Go figure. Yeah, 414 00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:09.520 right. Little business called the Maid's Cottage. They make great butter tarts and they're 415 00:26:09.520 --> 00:26:13.240 known for winning all these prizes all across Ontario. So they call themselves 416 00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.680 Ontario's Best Butter Tart. And man, they can back it up. Yeah. 417 00:26:16.760 --> 00:26:19.960 However, before they got all those awards and accolades, 418 00:26:20.620 --> 00:26:24.260 there had to be a call to come and just check out the 419 00:26:24.260 --> 00:26:27.300 restaurant and see for yourself. If it's for you, this is who we are. This 420 00:26:27.300 --> 00:26:30.860 is what we stand for. Old style home cooking, you know, 421 00:26:30.860 --> 00:26:34.380 service with a smile, old wood grain tables, very 422 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:38.220 country kitchen feel to it. And if that resonated with you, you 423 00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:42.060 are for us and we are for you. And a lot of people who 424 00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:45.780 are thinking about starting their own business hesitate because they think sales and 425 00:26:45.780 --> 00:26:49.000 marketing is dirty and. Or I don't know how to do it. 426 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.120 Well, the reality is, if you've ever had to sell an idea, if 427 00:26:53.120 --> 00:26:56.680 you've ever had to motivate a team to row in the same Direction. 428 00:26:57.080 --> 00:27:00.840 If you've ever had to get people up and amped 429 00:27:01.080 --> 00:27:03.920 and let's do this. I don't know if it's going to work, but let's do 430 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.400 it. If you've ever had to convince a client, let's try 431 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.120 this, or to bring an idea to them, not 100% 432 00:27:11.120 --> 00:27:14.800 sure if it will work or not 100% sure if it's the best idea. If 433 00:27:14.800 --> 00:27:18.600 you've ever seen your way through that, you can sell, 434 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.840 you can market, because you can transmit an idea in such a 435 00:27:22.840 --> 00:27:26.480 way that it causes an action, a 436 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.280 very specific action, and you can't let failure, 437 00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:33.960 like marketing is something you learn by trial and error. Yes, right. 438 00:27:34.040 --> 00:27:37.720 The same way that next time I use this template for recording, I will not 439 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.440 forget to arm your microphone. But when I was 18 440 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.240 years old, I played in a lot of rock bands. I got exposure to some 441 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:47.320 big crowds because of where I lived and where I went to school and stuff. 442 00:27:47.620 --> 00:27:50.460 And I remember doing a show one time and we had a singer and we 443 00:27:50.460 --> 00:27:53.860 knew he wasn't good, but when he got in front of people, he was even 444 00:27:53.860 --> 00:27:57.620 worse. And at the end of the show, I put my guitar down 445 00:27:57.620 --> 00:28:01.260 and ran to the nearest pillar and hid behind it 446 00:28:01.260 --> 00:28:04.740 and wouldn't come out until everyone had gone home. I was so 447 00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:08.500 embarrassed. I played, okay. He did not. 448 00:28:09.060 --> 00:28:12.620 And if those people had never gone home, I never would have come out. 449 00:28:12.620 --> 00:28:16.160 I'd still be there. Yeah. If I had done that today, 450 00:28:16.800 --> 00:28:20.560 where we make a mistake and we screw up the recording and I said, okay, 451 00:28:20.800 --> 00:28:24.560 screw it, yeah, I'm useless. I am. I'm so embarrassed. I'm never going to 452 00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:28.000 record a podcast again. Right. I wouldn't be where I am today. 453 00:28:28.560 --> 00:28:32.160 So your ability to say I'm not good at it, but if it's the most 454 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.920 important thing and guys who have done it and made a success 455 00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.720 out of it, like Paul LePage from Foundation BTS, 456 00:28:39.610 --> 00:28:42.970 then I could do it. I could do it if it means 457 00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:47.210 the cost of doing it is being scared and risking embarrassment. But the 458 00:28:47.210 --> 00:28:50.970 payoff is that I'll learn a fundamental skill 459 00:28:51.450 --> 00:28:55.130 that my competitors don't have, even with their better 460 00:28:55.290 --> 00:28:58.970 pie. I will outsell them, I'll outmaneuver them, 461 00:28:59.290 --> 00:29:03.050 and so on. Man, that is really great advice. Paul, one last 462 00:29:03.050 --> 00:29:05.960 question. What do you think might be next for you? 463 00:29:07.070 --> 00:29:10.390 So for me, 464 00:29:10.390 --> 00:29:13.950 personally, I've invested a lot of time into 465 00:29:14.590 --> 00:29:18.190 making this business a success, and we're really, 466 00:29:18.510 --> 00:29:22.350 really tracking with that right now. The company is doing better than we ever have 467 00:29:22.350 --> 00:29:26.030 before. The team is Amazing. Our services are 468 00:29:26.030 --> 00:29:29.870 fantastic. Our clients are raving about us, which is 469 00:29:30.190 --> 00:29:33.720 a good feeling. And so for me 470 00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:36.760 it does come down to we want to scale the organization. 471 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:41.040 And also I want to balance that with, you know, transitioning 472 00:29:41.040 --> 00:29:44.840 myself from being an IT manager to a business 473 00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:48.360 leader and working and using again, the Michael Berger 474 00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:50.920 framework. I don't know if it's Berger or Berger actually. 475 00:29:52.120 --> 00:29:55.840 And you know, working on the business instead of 476 00:29:55.840 --> 00:29:59.640 in the business, but also emphasizing a bit more work, life balance. 477 00:30:00.010 --> 00:30:03.170 Right, right. So before this interview I was talking to you about, you know, traveling 478 00:30:03.170 --> 00:30:06.970 out to Napanee for a weekend. Right. I left a little bit early on Friday 479 00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:10.970 and that's something that, you know, seven years ago I wasn't doing any of that. 480 00:30:11.290 --> 00:30:14.890 Right. So we want to see ourselves 481 00:30:14.890 --> 00:30:18.690 become a national company where we're working in every 482 00:30:18.690 --> 00:30:22.370 province. And so we want 483 00:30:22.370 --> 00:30:26.090 to have a salesperson and technical person in 484 00:30:26.090 --> 00:30:28.790 each major city so that we can deliver 485 00:30:30.070 --> 00:30:33.670 largely the remote services from our virtual 486 00:30:33.670 --> 00:30:35.990 office, which is also located across Canada. 487 00:30:37.190 --> 00:30:40.830 And actually, I don't know if I told you this, we're dedicated to being like 488 00:30:40.830 --> 00:30:44.630 a Canadian only company. So our staff all 489 00:30:44.630 --> 00:30:47.830 work and live in Canada, but we also have 490 00:30:47.830 --> 00:30:51.510 workations, which is kind of fun. And so we had people working 491 00:30:51.510 --> 00:30:55.310 from Hungary last year and stuff like that. And that's kind of fun. And 492 00:30:55.310 --> 00:30:58.750 it's something I hadn't even considered before. So. So that's where I see 493 00:30:58.750 --> 00:31:02.550 myself in 10 years. And then in terms of personal 494 00:31:02.550 --> 00:31:05.670 life, we're going to do more charity stuff like the 100 men who give a 495 00:31:05.670 --> 00:31:09.190 Damn. I'm going to play hockey until my knees don't work anymore. Awesome. 496 00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:12.150 Awesome. And just continue to do fun things 497 00:31:13.430 --> 00:31:17.270 with family and friends. So you get to have fun, 498 00:31:17.830 --> 00:31:20.750 live a life that you want, build a life of your own design and you 499 00:31:20.750 --> 00:31:24.270 build a business exactly the way that you want to build. As opposed 500 00:31:24.270 --> 00:31:27.470 to trying to please everybody. Yeah, 501 00:31:28.190 --> 00:31:31.710 we want to please a certain demographic. 502 00:31:31.710 --> 00:31:35.150 Exactly. And we want to do that exceptionally well. Wow, 503 00:31:35.390 --> 00:31:38.830 Paul. So first of all, thank you for making time to do this interview because 504 00:31:38.830 --> 00:31:42.510 I think your insights give people with an agile 505 00:31:42.510 --> 00:31:46.190 bent, maybe a wider purview that agile doesn't just mean that 506 00:31:46.190 --> 00:31:49.790 software development, you know, trying to get things finished 507 00:31:49.790 --> 00:31:53.550 faster. It's not about that. Agility is what the word. Agility 508 00:31:53.550 --> 00:31:56.640 means being able to bend and flex with the environment, 509 00:31:57.600 --> 00:32:01.440 learning from failure, not trying to know everything before 510 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:04.080 you put your foot out there. You know, if you had to get that red 511 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:07.920 button problem right before you opened your doors, there's a million Red button 512 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.640 problems in every business, and you can't know them right until you screw them 513 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.480 up good and proper. That's when you'll learn, that's when you'll improve, and that's when 514 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:19.320 you'll scale up. And I think that's an important lesson for people out there 515 00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:23.040 to hear, because our industry is changing, Paul. The stuff that we do 516 00:32:23.040 --> 00:32:26.400 is no longer considered commodity, is no longer considered 517 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.160 unique or necessarily 518 00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.120 specialized. It's table stakes. That's right. And you're kind of 519 00:32:34.120 --> 00:32:37.799 proving that. Actually, can I comment on that thing about the failure? Because 520 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:39.720 failure sometimes can have, like, 521 00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:45.000 reputational impact or it can have a financial impact. And so 522 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.610 as an example, I want to talk about one with a financial impact. But 523 00:32:49.570 --> 00:32:53.330 it doesn't mean that it was wrong. 524 00:32:53.810 --> 00:32:57.650 That's right. Yep. So we invested in us, like 525 00:32:58.290 --> 00:33:02.130 we're in our fourth iteration of our service management software 526 00:33:02.370 --> 00:33:06.090 as an example. And so through time we found, well, 527 00:33:06.090 --> 00:33:09.690 this is better for us, and so we made the move. Does that mean that 528 00:33:09.690 --> 00:33:13.410 the one that we picked before that was wrong? Like, that was the wrong choice 529 00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:17.680 at the time? No, it wasn't. Right. Another example 530 00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:21.440 is we invested in, like, a male security program that we 531 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:24.920 found that after we got it implemented and like fully running, 532 00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:28.720 it really just wasn't doing it the way we wanted it to do it. 533 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.560 So, long story short, we were locked into a contract for a year on 534 00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:35.760 that. I had to continue paying the bill, but we pulled that out of our 535 00:33:35.760 --> 00:33:39.350 customer base because it was going to affect our customer satisfaction levels. Right. 536 00:33:40.060 --> 00:33:41.420 So making the wrong choice 537 00:33:43.820 --> 00:33:47.540 is something that sometimes as a business owner, you just 538 00:33:47.540 --> 00:33:50.860 have to live with and march on and 539 00:33:51.820 --> 00:33:55.619 hopefully learn something from it. But these kind of things will 540 00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:59.020 happen again and again. Of course, the other example 541 00:33:59.260 --> 00:34:02.740 I can give is as the company got bigger, some of the 542 00:34:02.740 --> 00:34:06.500 processes that we had in place stopped working. And Michael Dell wrote a book 543 00:34:06.810 --> 00:34:10.530 based on how Dell kept breaking down every time he 544 00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:14.290 hit this new glass ceiling. And he was just like, oh, this 545 00:34:14.290 --> 00:34:18.130 is going to happen. This system that we built is this amazing today. When 546 00:34:18.130 --> 00:34:21.930 we're this big of a company, we know it's not going to work anymore. And 547 00:34:21.930 --> 00:34:25.570 so that's something that I try to keep in mind is, is 548 00:34:25.570 --> 00:34:29.090 what we built for today isn't going to work in two years. Oh, that's 549 00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:32.890 interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So failure, once again, essential part of the process. 550 00:34:32.890 --> 00:34:36.719 It's how you build and grow. You know, there's a saying, muscle doesn't grow 551 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.479 until you tear it. So you expect things to break down. Well, One more time. 552 00:34:40.479 --> 00:34:43.279 Paul, thank you so much for making. Time to do it. No problem. And people 553 00:34:43.279 --> 00:34:47.039 can find you@foundationbts.com that's right. And they find your email is 554 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:50.838 Paulound. Paul LePage. Paul Lepage. Thank 555 00:34:50.838 --> 00:34:54.479 you. And folks, if you're out there listening to this and you think 556 00:34:54.479 --> 00:34:57.919 you could use or know someone who could use some managed services 557 00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:01.319 or would like to get to know Paul and his offerings, would you do me 558 00:35:01.319 --> 00:35:04.559 a favor and please check them out? You know my show, I don't bring on 559 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:08.340 people because they're famous or because they're on every other podcast. I 560 00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:12.100 bring on people I like because they inspire me, they motivate me, 561 00:35:12.100 --> 00:35:15.660 and they do great work. I'm so impressed with what you built here, Paul. Thank 562 00:35:15.660 --> 00:35:19.100 you. And I'd like to make a business myself 563 00:35:19.660 --> 00:35:23.100 that is the same size as yours and has the reach as yours. So please, 564 00:35:23.180 --> 00:35:26.140 if you're thinking about managed services for your organization, 565 00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:30.580 would you give Paul a try? Just take a look, have a conversation with him 566 00:35:30.580 --> 00:35:34.350 and see if he's a fit for you. Help this business prosper 567 00:35:34.350 --> 00:35:37.590 and grow and continue to do the great work that he does, from his charities 568 00:35:37.590 --> 00:35:40.870 to the people that he employs in our local community. Thank you, Paul, 569 00:35:41.190 --> 00:35:44.510 for being such a vibrant part of the new market business 570 00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:48.190 landscape. I'm really grateful I could do this. Oh, me too. Thanks so much, 571 00:35:48.190 --> 00:35:51.990 Paul. All right, thanks. I hope you enjoyed that one. Please 572 00:35:51.990 --> 00:35:53.950 send in any questions or comments to 573 00:35:53.950 --> 00:35:57.670 me@contactadassagile.com or any of the contact points 574 00:35:57.670 --> 00:36:00.390 in the show notes below. And don't forget to check out 575 00:36:00.390 --> 00:36:04.060 Paul@foundationbts.com thank you once again 576 00:36:04.210 --> 00:36:07.970 in I look. Forward to next time. And until then, stay badass.